<html><body bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div>Folks,</div><div><br></div><div>Sitting in back of car stuck in traffic...so figured I'd give my standard 2 cents sideline view commentary. When thinking through what to do with an organization to make it meaningful, it is important to identify what are the unaddressed needs of the community and what are the services you can provide. I think it is important that folks think through how you want to position the neurobureau in the community that will make it both unique and effective (I.e., capable of taking ideas and making them reality) for the community.</div><div><br></div><div>With respect to grants, do not underestimate the environment we are heading into at the NIH...Tom Insel has been very open about the reality of the times for NIMH and the challenges ahead for funding...same true for the other institutes. Review will be harder than ever and more competitive. Foundations and philanthropy will be very important. And so will tempering expectations, and increasing distribution of work...when you see efforts like the 1000 functional connectomes project, INDI and ADHD-200...those were all done without dedicated funding...they are worth it, but do take a toll on those executing them (Maarten will readily testify to this, as I am sure Cameron will in his more recent efforts). One hopes their efforts can obtain funding over time as they become established enough...but that is over time. So, my point is efforts up front will likely be the product of folks working overtime or gaining philanthropic support. Would set goals for neurobureau to ensure feasibility.</div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); "><br></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); ">Hope that makes sense. </span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); "><br></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); ">With respect to openness...my limited view of the situation is that it may feel closed in that folks see pins and branding all over the place...but not much saying "email us here to become a member"...keeps people who do not know the inner circle looking from the outside...don't think that is intentional...and my view can be off.</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); "><br></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); ">Traffic has lightened...so, I will sign off on that note.</span></div><div><br>Sent from my iPhone</div><div><br>On Jul 9, 2011, at 11:32 PM, Pierre Bellec <<a href="mailto:pierre.bellec@criugm.qc.ca">pierre.bellec@criugm.qc.ca</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>@Donald<div><br></div><div>Yes, yes, yes !!! I love the idea of a workshop where people would try to create something, rather than listen to talks. We had actually started discussing something along those lines. One other idea was to have half participants "senior" (should know what they're doing) and the other half wanting to learn on a technique/set of techniques. We would pair seniors and juniors based on interests. So it would also be an educational workshop. Another idea would be to have a number of artists joining to work on one or several pieces around the theme of the workshop, in interaction with the scientists. In the case of Nathalie for example, there could even be some imaging experiments going on as part of the workshop. Finally, I believe there should be pre-workshop meetings on the web to discuss the work before the event. 3, 4 or even 5 days are too short to achieve something if it's not carefuly planned. </div>
<div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div><br></div><div>Pierre Bellec, PhD<br>Chercheur adjoint<div>Département d'informatique et de recherche opérationnelle<br><div>Centre de recherche de l'institut de Gériatrie de Montréal</div>
<div><span style="font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:14px">4565, Chemin Queen-Mary<br>Montréal (Québec)<br>H3W 1W5</span></div><div>Université de Montréal<br><a href="http://simexp-lab.org/brainwiki/doku.php?id=pierrebellec" target="_blank"><a href="http://simexp-lab.org/brainwiki/doku.php?id=pierrebellec">http://simexp-lab.org/brainwiki/doku.php?id=pierrebellec</a></a><br>
(001)(514) 340 3540 #3367<br><br></div></div><br>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2011/7/9 MCLAREN, Donald <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mclaren.donald@gmail.com"><a href="mailto:mclaren.donald@gmail.com">mclaren.donald@gmail.com</a></a>></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
I'm stealing this idea from the Advanced Psychometrics Workshop (its<br>
partially funded by the NIH).<br>
<br>
Each year, we should pick a place -- somewhere unique -- and hold a<br>
small workshop. I'm thinking 30 people maximum where they would apply<br>
and we'd choose the people. At the workshop, there would be some talks<br>
and then we'd divide into 3-4 workgroups and analyze a dataset. From<br>
this one or more papers could be produced from each group.<br>
<br>
I should also point out, that all the papers could form a special<br>
issue (e.g. Brain and Behavior is having a special issue just on the<br>
papers from the Advanced Psychometrics Workshop this year).<br>
<br>
After a year or two, we could probably get some NIH funding. This<br>
would be a good starting point for building a research focused<br>
organization. I also think that once we get going, then it would be<br>
easiest to be driven by corporate money. I think there will be a lot<br>
of resistance from institutions in the US from letting faculty apply<br>
for grants through the NB. To much lost revenue from the indirect<br>
costs.<br>
<br>
Now, if its truly a research institution, with its own facility,<br>
that's another story. However, I think that is probably a number of<br>
years away.<br>
<br>
At least that is how it seems.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
Best Regards, Donald McLaren<br>
=================<br>
D.G. McLaren, Ph.D.<br>
Postdoctoral Research Fellow, GRECC, Bedford VA<br>
Research Fellow, Department of Neurology, Massachusetts General Hospital and<br>
Harvard Medical School<br>
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</div><div><div></div><div class="h5">On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 10:56 PM, Pierre Bellec<br>
<<a href="mailto:pierre.bellec@criugm.qc.ca"><a href="mailto:pierre.bellec@criugm.qc.ca">pierre.bellec@criugm.qc.ca</a></a>> wrote:<br>
> This conversation is starting to have an interesting spin. The debate has<br>
> started !<br>
> Here is a couple of comments, and a summary of what I'd like the neurobureau<br>
> to be in the future.<br>
> * The neurobureau really is who we are. What excites me about the<br>
> neurobureau is to engage with people such as Daniel, Cameron, Alex, Clare,<br>
> Oliver, Catie, Heather, Nathalie, to name a few who I had wonderful<br>
> discussions with over the past couple of weeks (sorry for those I forgot).<br>
> The roots of it is a mixture of science and social. Great principles don't<br>
> matter too much at the end of the day. I totally agree with Cameron when he<br>
> says that everyone is a member of the neurobureau. But because of who we<br>
> are, people like Joshua are more likely to actively join us than, well,<br>
> someone not like Joshua. I think it's fine this way. After joining, it's up<br>
> to the people to actually find their place in one or multiple ones of our<br>
> projects, or to seed their own.<br>
> * I think we need slightly more formal organization. To elaborate on the<br>
> few guidelines I had sent in my first email, we would have :<br>
> * A core set of members pushing a general agenda, like giving a legal<br>
> status to the bureau, organizing large group calls, updating the website to<br>
> advertise our initiatives, etc ... We need to have at least one large group<br>
> call a month to discuss projects advancements and new ideas.<br>
> * As many ad-hoc work-groups as needed, as long as there are people to<br>
> actively sustain their growth. Within each work-group, we need at least a<br>
> leader. For the art@HBM there were other roles that could easily be defined,<br>
> like dealing with OHBM, contacting artists, posting on the blog, etc. It's<br>
> up to every member to step up and be part of the actions. But it's up to the<br>
> leaders to make sure everyone in the bureau knows about our grand plans, so<br>
> that interested members can actually step up.<br>
> * We need money. Some work groups could be organized around the idea of<br>
> a grant application. I already started something like that with Alex, Clare,<br>
> Daniel and Cameronn targeted at human frontier. I think that the work-group<br>
> who gets the grant should be free to manage it. Hopefully, some of the money<br>
> we'll get can serve the greater purposes of the bureau. One thing we need to<br>
> put into place, funded or not, is a open data & tool sharing network. That's<br>
> Mike's idea and I have no doubt this should be one of our future (important)<br>
> goals. There are several ways to try to get that funded. We can discuss it<br>
> during the call, or maybe we should have a dedicated work-group.<br>
> * We need to have a publication plan per work group, if appropriate.<br>
> Authorship should be discussed as early as possible, so people know what<br>
> their expectations should be. I have a pretty inclusive view when it comes<br>
> to authorship, but in any case that should be discussed on a per-case basis.<br>
> * I believe we need senior members. And also, we would need to ask about<br>
> 5 seniors who are morally very much in-line with the bureau (or ahead) to<br>
> join an advisory board (I am thinking about at least Mike Milham, Xavier<br>
> Castellanos, Alan Evans). We would ask for their opinion by email or<br>
> conference call regarding our main strategic initiatives, like grants,<br>
> workshops, etc ... What we're trying to achieve is not completely new, and<br>
> there is some experience out there we could really use. I actually had this<br>
> kind of discussions informally already, along with other members, and they<br>
> turned out to be amazingly useful. We should turn this into a formal<br>
> mechanism.<br>
> Looking forward to see you all next week, please fill in the doodle if you<br>
> haven't yet,<br>
> Pierre Bellec, PhD<br>
> Chercheur adjoint<br>
> Département d'informatique et de recherche opérationnelle<br>
> Centre de recherche de l'institut de Gériatrie de Montréal<br>
> 4565, Chemin Queen-Mary<br>
> Montréal (Québec)<br>
> H3W 1W5<br>
> Université de Montréal<br>
> <a href="http://simexp-lab.org/brainwiki/doku.php?id=pierrebellec" target="_blank"><a href="http://simexp-lab.org/brainwiki/doku.php?id=pierrebellec">http://simexp-lab.org/brainwiki/doku.php?id=pierrebellec</a></a><br>
> (001)(514) 340 3540 #3367<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> 2011/7/9 Oliver Lyttelton <<a href="mailto:oliver.c.lyttelton@gmail.com"><a href="mailto:oliver.c.lyttelton@gmail.com">oliver.c.lyttelton@gmail.com</a></a>><br>
>><br>
>> Hi Cameron,<br>
>><br>
>> Yes... I do remember the distinction between membership and leadership<br>
>> being made that evening, thank you for drawing this back into the discussion<br>
>> space. I think your email is direct and clear, and hopefully will provide a<br>
>> springboard for further thoughts. Some of mine, interspersed through what<br>
>> you said.<br>
>><br>
>> >Ideally in the future we will have a democratic process in which the<br>
>> > >membership chooses the leadership, but at this point that is impractical.<br>
>> Okay, so what would it take to make it practical? If this is what you want<br>
>> then how do we get there?<br>
>><br>
>> >Here are a few things that I would like the Neuro Bureau to be:<br>
>> >- an independent research institution<br>
>><br>
>> This is news to me. Do you mean a full on institution that receives grant<br>
>> money and hires researchers? Interesting.<br>
>><br>
>> >- an organization that supports open neuroscience through openly >sharing<br>
>> > tools, data, ideas, and effort<br>
>><br>
>> Sounds good, I guess this is where were heading. The work you have done<br>
>> for the ADHD project is amazing in this direction.<br>
>><br>
>> >- a diverse community of people who like brains and open collaboration<br>
>><br>
>> Okay... but a community of members, or a community of hubs? At the moment,<br>
>> I think it is only the latter, the "leadership" as you call it, which brings<br>
>> me back to wondering about how "open" we really are. What is it that we<br>
>> offer to non-hub "members" that we don't offer the entire imaging community?<br>
>> the parties and wearing the badge?<br>
>><br>
>> >- a positive force in the universe<br>
>> Nice sentiment, I agree<br>
>> >- something to be proud of<br>
>> Nice sentiment, I agree<br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
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