Dear all,<div><br></div><div>I booked an EVO meeting for tomorrow's large group call at 2:00 p.m. (Montreal time) on Evo. Sorry Oliver, you were the only one unavailable at this time. We'll try to keep the meeting an hour long, 1:30 at the most. I'll put together an agenda with all the points raised in the discussion latter today. </div>
<div><br></div><div>The details of the meeting follow :</div><div><br></div><div><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">Title: The Neurobureau<br>
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</div>
<div>Pierre Bellec, PhD<br>Chercheur adjoint<div>Département d'informatique et de recherche opérationnelle<br><div>Centre de recherche de l'institut de Gériatrie de Montréal</div><div><span style="font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:14px">4565, Chemin Queen-Mary<br>
Montréal (Québec)<br>H3W 1W5</span></div><div>Université de Montréal<br><a href="http://simexp-lab.org/brainwiki/doku.php?id=pierrebellec" target="_blank">http://simexp-lab.org/brainwiki/doku.php?id=pierrebellec</a><br>(001)(514) 340 3540 #3367<br>
<br></div></div><br>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2011/7/11 Oliver Lyttelton <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:oliver.c.lyttelton@gmail.com" target="_blank">oliver.c.lyttelton@gmail.com</a>></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>Like!<div><div></div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 11 July 2011 14:32, joshua vogelstein <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:joshuav@jhu.edu" target="_blank">joshuav@jhu.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
my vote:<div><br></div><div>every being is already part of the NB</div><div><br></div><div>signing up makes one a vertex of the neuro bureau network</div><div><br></div><div>vertices collectively appoint hubs and advisory boards and such</div>
<div><br></div><div>this potentially includes non-academics. we strive to be open....</div><div><br></div><div>in peace,</div><div><div>j<br clear="all"><div><br></div><div>--</div>If it makes you feel better, please remember to consider humanity before doing stuff. Otherwise, please just have a nice day.<br>
<a href="http://openconnectomeproject.org" target="_blank">openconnectomeproject.org</a><br><br><br>
<br><br></div><div><div></div><div><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 1:59 PM, Oliver Lyttelton <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:oliver.c.lyttelton@gmail.com" target="_blank">oliver.c.lyttelton@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>I hear your point, and it may be better that way.<br><br>Just to be clear, I wasn't suggesting membership of the bureau should be just for students, but that the hubs should be drawn from the student body.<br><br>
I totally agree that having junior faculty on board both as members and also in a leadership role is vital.<br>
<br>sort of:<br>students elect hubs<br><br>hubs mature into leadership roles...<div><div></div><div><br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 11 July 2011 13:18, MCLAREN, Donald <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mclaren.donald@gmail.com" target="_blank">mclaren.donald@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I think it should extend to junior faculty in addition to post-docs.<br>
There are a number of junior faculty who could also benefit from the<br>
resources and contribute to the education and mentoring of students.<br>
<div><br>
Best Regards, Donald McLaren<br>
=================<br>
D.G. McLaren, Ph.D.<br>
Postdoctoral Research Fellow, GRECC, Bedford VA<br>
Research Fellow, Department of Neurology, Massachusetts General Hospital and<br>
Harvard Medical School<br>
Office: <a href="tel:%28773%29%20406-2464" value="+17734062464" target="_blank">(773) 406-2464</a><br>
=====================<br>
This e-mail contains CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION which may contain PROTECTED<br>
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<br>
<br>
<br>
</div><div><div></div><div>On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 1:05 PM, Oliver Lyttelton<br>
<<a href="mailto:oliver.c.lyttelton@gmail.com" target="_blank">oliver.c.lyttelton@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
><br>
> Hi everyone,<br>
><br>
> I kind of like the guerilla/commune aspect of the bureau. As we all get on<br>
> in our careers, aspirations mature, and certainly encouraging "open<br>
> neuroscience" extends a lot further than a subversive PhD/Post-doc society<br>
> aimed at getting the big power-players to bring down their walls and allow<br>
> us to work together easily.<br>
><br>
> But as we move beyond those ideas towards creating an "open neuroscience"<br>
> infrastructure we hit straight into other big projects aimed in the same<br>
> arena, and I think, risk losing our identity.<br>
><br>
> Since I can't make wednesday, ( I have a 3 hour meeting with my<br>
> supervisor...) and it looks like that will probably be the day for the<br>
> meeting, based on everyone else's availability, here is my wish list:<br>
><br>
> ------------------------------------<br>
><br>
> 1) Whatever else the neurobureau becomes, I'd like to see it maintain its<br>
> role as an international student/(masters/phd/postdoc) support<br>
> group/watchdog championing the cause of people who are often severely<br>
> disenfranchised by the scientific establishment.<br>
><br>
> 2) Open membership. I'd like to see that at every event the bureau hosts,<br>
> everyone is encouraged to become a member, as Mike pointed out, with simple<br>
> instructions as to how to join. Somewhere there should be a list of members,<br>
> and an infrastructure in place to help people reach their local hubs and set<br>
> up their own local, student initiatives. Why not use Facebook?<br>
><br>
> 3) I would like to see hubs elected by the members. I'd like to see a date<br>
> set for the first elections (perhaps next year) and a roadmap as to how to<br>
> get there.<br>
><br>
> 4) Anyone who is no longer a student (and in my mind not eligible to run for<br>
> election as hub) could become part of the of leadership structure, beyond<br>
> the hubs, which interact and interface between the hubs and the existing<br>
> power structures within the field, championing the cause of<br>
> open-neuroscience, and looking after the rights of the student body.<br>
><br>
> Thanks for reading,<br>
><br>
> with my best wishes to everyone,<br>
><br>
> Oliver<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On 10 July 2011 12:40, Pierre Bellec <<a href="mailto:pierre.bellec@criugm.qc.ca" target="_blank">pierre.bellec@criugm.qc.ca</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Dear Joshua et al,<br>
>> What you describe makes me think of one of the idea initiated by Mike<br>
>> Milham. Basically we would have a number of research centers which would<br>
>> provide some free space for datasets and some free resources for<br>
>> computation, with as many tools as possible. I think it's important to have<br>
>> multiple data repository centers to have "mirrors" and cut down access time<br>
>> in various part of the world. These mirrors can be linked to multiple<br>
>> places, such as NITRC. The key idea is that you can use the data and the<br>
>> resources, or even upload your own data to process it there, but then you<br>
>> have to commit to make it public, at least at some defined point. That's a<br>
>> viral model for open data (and tool) sharing. Of course, the sites would<br>
>> have common protocols, and share their databases to a large extent so they<br>
>> would be driving forces in that network. What's cool about that model is<br>
>> that there is no need to install a virtual machine to share tools or data,<br>
>> and no limit to the computational power you can access (if the centers are<br>
>> plugged into high-performance computing facilities).<br>
>> I am definitely working towards that at my level. As I mentioned to you, I<br>
>> am a "pipeliner" and I have developed software specifically targeted at<br>
>> pipeline development and deployment (PSOM and NIAK, which are the<br>
>> octave/matlab equivalent of NIPYPE and NIPY). There is also the project of<br>
>> Alan Evans, CBRAIN, which aims at providing a generic interface to<br>
>> download/upload databases, and send processing on a grid of supercomputers.<br>
>> Currently CBRAIN interfaces about 50000 cores, but this has not been<br>
>> negotiated for open access. I am pretty sure it could though, if rules were<br>
>> defined. Instead of writing this ridiculously long email, I should actually<br>
>> be writing a paper about a generic system to deploy any pipeline coded using<br>
>> PSOM into CBRAIN. That's how we (me, Sébastien Lavoie-Courchesne and<br>
>> François Chouinard-Decorte) have preprocessed the ADHD200 dataset. Alan also<br>
>> applied for a 5 Pb data storage (I am on that application) so, if that goes<br>
>> through, Montreal could be one of the mirroring site. We could try to<br>
>> implement this computational infrastructure at various sites of the<br>
>> neurobureau and make it happen. It's all possible in a short time. It could<br>
>> maybe even get funded, but as Mike pointed out that's not a necessity.<br>
>> BTW, because this project fits a number of large efforts in the field, I<br>
>> think it's important for us to be connected with the key senior players<br>
>> somehow. That's partly what motivated me to propose this "senior advisory<br>
>> board" (it could be beneficial beyond that particular point though). If we<br>
>> can be some sort of proof of concept for a larger effort, good. Conversely,<br>
>> if someone gets funded to do that, hopefully we'll be part of it.<br>
>> Finally, re the polymath project, one of the Alex of the neurobureau wrote<br>
>> something about that on the neurobureau blog. We don't actually need a big<br>
>> infrastucture for that. All we need is a "grand challenge" as well as a<br>
>> dataset where this grand challenge can be resolved. Actually, the grand<br>
>> challenge could be the target of the workshop Donald suggested. I have an<br>
>> idea for a grand challenge, will do a separate email about that.<br>
>> Please let me know what you think,<br>
>> Pierre Bellec, PhD<br>
>> Chercheur adjoint<br>
>> Département d'informatique et de recherche opérationnelle<br>
>> Centre de recherche de l'institut de Gériatrie de Montréal<br>
>> 4565, Chemin Queen-Mary<br>
>> Montréal (Québec)<br>
>> H3W 1W5<br>
>> Université de Montréal<br>
>> <a href="http://simexp-lab.org/brainwiki/doku.php?id=pierrebellec" target="_blank">http://simexp-lab.org/brainwiki/doku.php?id=pierrebellec</a><br>
>> (001)(514) 340 3540 #3367<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> 2011/7/10 joshua vogelstein <<a href="mailto:joshuav@jhu.edu" target="_blank">joshuav@jhu.edu</a>><br>
>>><br>
>>> ah, thank you for bringing up this point! i agree that this is a very<br>
>>> important discussion, and that there are gradations of openness. consider<br>
>>> wikipedia: it is not the case that anybody can just write anything they<br>
>>> want. wikimedia established guidelines, users are expected to follow. the<br>
>>> same is true of arxiv. i expect that we will want to establish similar<br>
>>> guidelines establishing what we are open to, and what we are not. and i<br>
>>> imagine that those guidelines will be organic and grow with us as we learn<br>
>>> more and get more capabilities.<br>
>>> cheers, j<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> --<br>
>>> If it makes you feel better, please remember to consider humanity before<br>
>>> doing stuff. Otherwise, please just have a nice day.<br>
>>> <a href="http://openconnectomeproject.org" target="_blank">openconnectomeproject.org</a><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> On Sun, Jul 10, 2011 at 10:03 AM, MCLAREN, Donald<br>
>>> <<a href="mailto:mclaren.donald@gmail.com" target="_blank">mclaren.donald@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Along the discussion of openess. I think one of the early decisions if<br>
>>>> if there will be a new central data repository (a number already<br>
>>>> exist) or if we will use an existing one or if we will use multiple<br>
>>>> systems that are distributed. The other decision related to this is<br>
>>>> whether it should be fully open -- anyone can add to it -- or OPEN<br>
>>>> access -- where an 'elected' committe would review and vote on the<br>
>>>> submission or processing request -- or OPEN access -- where the<br>
>>>> storage owners would decide what is valuable enough to put on the<br>
>>>> system.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> These two questions will go hand in hand.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On Saturday, July 9, 2011, Michael Milham <<a href="mailto:milham01@gmail.com" target="_blank">milham01@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>> > Folks,<br>
>>>> > Sitting in back of car stuck in traffic...so figured I'd give my<br>
>>>> > standard 2 cents sideline view commentary. When thinking through what to do<br>
>>>> > with an organization to make it meaningful, it is important to identify what<br>
>>>> > are the unaddressed needs of the community and what are the services you can<br>
>>>> > provide. I think it is important that folks think through how you want to<br>
>>>> > position the neurobureau in the community that will make it both unique and<br>
>>>> > effective (I.e., capable of taking ideas and making them reality) for the<br>
>>>> > community.<br>
>>>> > With respect to grants, do not underestimate the environment we are<br>
>>>> > heading into at the NIH...Tom Insel has been very open about the reality of<br>
>>>> > the times for NIMH and the challenges ahead for funding...same true for the<br>
>>>> > other institutes. Review will be harder than ever and more competitive.<br>
>>>> > Foundations and philanthropy will be very important. And so will tempering<br>
>>>> > expectations, and increasing distribution of work...when you see efforts<br>
>>>> > like the 1000 functional connectomes project, INDI and ADHD-200...those were<br>
>>>> > all done without dedicated funding...they are worth it, but do take a toll<br>
>>>> > on those executing them (Maarten will readily testify to this, as I am sure<br>
>>>> > Cameron will in his more recent efforts). One hopes their efforts can obtain<br>
>>>> > funding over time as they become established enough...but that is over time.<br>
>>>> > So, my point is efforts up front will likely be the product of folks working<br>
>>>> > overtime or gaining philanthropic support. Would set goals for neurobureau<br>
>>>> > to ensure feasibility.<br>
>>>> > Hope that makes sense.<br>
>>>> > With respect to openness...my limited view of the situation is that it<br>
>>>> > may feel closed in that folks see pins and branding all over the place...but<br>
>>>> > not much saying "email us here to become a member"...keeps people who do not<br>
>>>> > know the inner circle looking from the outside...don't think that is<br>
>>>> > intentional...and my view can be off.<br>
>>>> > Traffic has lightened...so, I will sign off on that note.<br>
>>>> > Sent from my iPhone<br>
>>>> > On Jul 9, 2011, at 11:32 PM, Pierre Bellec<br>
>>>> > <<a href="mailto:pierre.bellec@criugm.qc.ca" target="_blank">pierre.bellec@criugm.qc.ca</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>> ><br>
>>>> > @Donald<br>
>>>> > Yes, yes, yes !!! I love the idea of a workshop where people would try<br>
>>>> > to create something, rather than listen to talks. We had actually started<br>
>>>> > discussing something along those lines. One other idea was to have half<br>
>>>> > participants "senior" (should know what they're doing) and the other half<br>
>>>> > wanting to learn on a technique/set of techniques. We would pair seniors and<br>
>>>> > juniors based on interests. So it would also be an educational workshop.<br>
>>>> > Another idea would be to have a number of artists joining to work on one or<br>
>>>> > several pieces around the theme of the workshop, in interaction with the<br>
>>>> > scientists. In the case of Nathalie for example, there could even be some<br>
>>>> > imaging experiments going on as part of the workshop. Finally, I believe<br>
>>>> > there should be pre-workshop meetings on the web to discuss the work before<br>
>>>> > the event. 3, 4 or even 5 days are too short to achieve something if it's<br>
>>>> > not carefuly planned.<br>
>>>> ><br>
>>>> > Cheers,<br>
>>>> > Pierre Bellec, PhD<br>
>>>> > Chercheur adjointDépartement d'informatique et de recherche<br>
>>>> > opérationnelle<br>
>>>> > Centre de recherche de l'institut de Gériatrie de Montréal<br>
>>>> > 4565, Chemin Queen-Mary<br>
>>>> > Montréal (Québec)<br>
>>>> > H3W 1W5Université de Montréal<br>
>>>> > <a href="http://simexp-lab.org/brainwiki/doku.php?id=pierrebellec" target="_blank">http://simexp-lab.org/brainwiki/doku.php?id=pierrebellec</a><br>
>>>> > (001)(514) 340 3540 #3367<br>
>>>> ><br>
>>>> ><br>
>>>> ><br>
>>>> ><br>
>>>> > 2011/7/9 MCLAREN, Donald <<a href="mailto:mclaren.donald@gmail.com" target="_blank">mclaren.donald@gmail.com</a>><br>
>>>> ><br>
>>>> > I'm stealing this idea from the Advanced Psychometrics Workshop (its<br>
>>>> > partially funded by the NIH).<br>
>>>> ><br>
>>>> > Each year, we should pick a place -- somewhere unique -- and hold a<br>
>>>> > small workshop. I'm thinking 30 people maximum where they would apply<br>
>>>> > and we'd choose the people. At the workshop, there would be some talks<br>
>>>> > and then we'd divide into 3-4 workgroups and analyze a dataset. From<br>
>>>> > this one or more papers could be produced from each group.<br>
>>>> ><br>
>>>> > I should also point out, that all the papers could form a special<br>
>>>> > issue (e.g. Brain and Behavior is having a special issue just on the<br>
>>>> > papers from the Advanced Psychometrics Workshop this year).<br>
>>>> ><br>
>>>> > After a year or two, we could probably get some NIH funding. This<br>
>>>> > would be a good starting point for building a research focused<br>
>>>> > organization. I also think that once we get going, then it would be<br>
>>>> > easiest to be driven by corporate money. I think there will be a lot<br>
>>>> > of resistance from institutions in the US from letting faculty apply<br>
>>>> > for grants through the NB. To much lost revenue from the indirect<br>
>>>> > costs.<br>
>>>> ><br>
>>>> > Now, if its truly a research institution, with its own facility,<br>
>>>> > that's another story. However, I think that is probably a number of<br>
>>>> > years away.<br>
>>>> ><br>
>>>> > At least that is how it seems.<br>
>>>> ><br>
>>>> > Best Regards, Donald McLaren<br>
>>>> > =================<br>
>>>> > D.G. McLaren, Ph.D.<br>
>>>> > Postdoctoral Research Fellow, GRECC, Bedford VA<br>
>>>> > Research Fellow, Department of Neurology, Massachusetts General<br>
>>>> > Hospital and<br>
>>>> > Harvard Medical School<br>
>>>> > Office: <a href="tel:%28773%29%20406-2464" value="+17734062464" target="_blank">(773) 406-2464</a><br>
>>>> > =====================<br>
>>>> > This e-mail contains CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION which may contain<br>
>>>> > PROTECTED<br>
>>>> > HEALTHCARE INFORMATION and may also be LEGALLY PRIVILEGED and which is<br>
>>>> > intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If<br>
>>>> > the<br>
>>>> > reader of the e-mail is not the intended recipient or the employee or<br>
>>>> > agent<br>
>>>> > responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are<br>
>>>> > hereby<br>
>>>> > notified that you are in possession of confidential and privileged<br>
>>>> > information. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or the taking<br>
>>>> > of any<br>
>>>> > action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly<br>
>>>> > prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail<br>
>>>> > unintentionally, please immediately notify the sender via telephone at<br>
>>>> > (773)<br>
>>>> > 406-2464 or email.<br>
>>>> ><br>
>>>> ><br>
>>>> ><br>
>>>> ><br>
>>>> > On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 10:56 PM, Pierre Bellec<br>
>>>> > <<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> --<br>
>>>> Best Regards, Donald McLaren<br>
>>>> =================<br>
>>>> D.G. McLaren, Ph.D.<br>
>>>> Postdoctoral Research Fellow, GRECC, Bedford VA<br>
>>>> Research Fellow, Department of Neurology, Massachusetts General Hospital<br>
>>>> and<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Harvard Medical School<br>
>>>> Office: <a href="tel:%28773%29%20406-2464" value="+17734062464" target="_blank">(773) 406-2464</a><br>
>>>> =====================<br>
>>>> This e-mail contains CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION which may contain<br>
>>>> PROTECTED<br>
>>>> HEALTHCARE INFORMATION and may also be LEGALLY PRIVILEGED and which is<br>
>>>> intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If<br>
>>>> the<br>
>>>> reader of the e-mail is not the intended recipient or the employee or<br>
>>>> agent<br>
>>>> responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby<br>
>>>> notified that you are in possession of confidential and privileged<br>
>>>> information. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or the taking of<br>
>>>> any<br>
>>>> action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly<br>
>>>> prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail<br>
>>>> unintentionally, please immediately notify the sender via telephone at<br>
>>>> (773)<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> 406-2464 or email.<br>
>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
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>>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
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